Fratzengeballer hat geschrieben:wieviele nicht "deutschsprechende" Mitglieder haben wir denn so grob?
Weiss das jemand?

Ca. 10%, wobei ich die Niederländer mitgezählt habe, von denen die meisten viel besser Deutsch können als vmtl. die Deutschen ABBUC-Mitglieder Niederländisch. Nimmt man die Niederländer dabei aus, bleiben keine 10.

Die Internationalisierung wurde schon einige Male versucht. Gunnar hatte das am weitesten entwickelt.
Letztlich war das Feedback gering.

Hallo hier die aktuelle Aufschlüsselung:
10 in Österreich
1 Kanada
6 Schweiz
3 Tschechien
3 Groß Britanien
1 Ungarn
2 Irland
1 Norwegen
1 Namibia
20 Niederlande
6 Polen
1 Spanien
1 Türkei
8 USA
Die Leute aus Spanien, Nambia, Schweiz und Österreich sind deutschsprachig.
Ein Mitglied in den USA ebenfalls.
Ich habe viele Anfragen aus allen möglichen Ländern der Welt bezüglich der Mitgliedschaft. Sobald SIe aufgefordert werden, den Jahresbeitrag in Höhe von 32 € im voraus zu zahlen, melden sich 99,9 % nicht mehr.
Schöne Restostern
Ich hoffe, Ihr habt das Osterei gefunden
Wolfgang

I thought there were more non-German people...
BTW, I am one of 6 Swiss but I don't speak German.

Philsan hat geschrieben:I thought there were more non-German people...
BTW, I am one of 6 Swiss but I don't speak German.

I´ve dropped you a line to your post in the AA forum .

Cheers,
andY

Hi,

da war EDA70 schneller als ich.

War meine erste Idee beim Lesen dieses Themas, die Beiträge in Englisch als PDF im Mitgliederbereich zugänglich zu machen.

Um ehrlich zu sein - einen digital zugänglichen vermutlich interessanten deutschen Text in einigermaßen verständliches Englisch zu bekommen geht ja auch mit Online-Übersetzern. Das macht schließlich MS mit der gesamten KB in umgekehrter Richtung genauso.

CU, Erhard

==

Hi,

EDA70 was faster than me.

My first idea when reading this thread was to make the posts available in English as a PDF in the members area.

To be honest - getting a digitally accessible probably interesting German text in reasonably understandable English is also possible with online translators. That's what MS does with the entire KB in the reverse direction as well.

CU, Erhard

5 years later probably ABBUC has gotten more non-german speaking members. I'm thinking of a bilingual ABBUC mag. That means: not EVERY german article has to be translated to englisch and not EVERY english article has to be translated to german. If the author of an article provide his article in two languages, it's fine, and both versions will be published. But if the author is german-only or english-only it should also be possible to publish the article in one language. Another opportunity is to print automated translated articles if we get an article in only one language. The effort to have all articles translated by humans has already failed with the Pro (c) magazine. We should learn from the experience and not make the same mistake.

Hi Bunsen,

thanks for sharing your thoughts!
I´m absolutely agree and I guess, this could be the right way...

I´m not sure, but whats about a parallel distributed (and searchable) PDF version of the ABBUC Mag for all members?
So everyone is able to convert the articles to his prefered language
(by using any online/offline translator).

Just my 2 cents...

Gtx,
andY

Bunsen hat geschrieben:The effort to have all articles translated by humans has already failed with the Pro (c) magazine. We should learn from the experience and not make the same mistake.

I would not say it has failed due to translation work (there were other reasons). Proc issues 1-12 were all available in german and english language, you can still order them. Steve Nicklin (a Brit who lived in Germany for several years and now lives in Australia) translated all german articles into english language and Sleepy and a few others translated the english articles into german language. The main problem was that german readers were not very interested in the magazine and more english speaking Atarians subscribed it...

Thus, since issue 13 Proc is published in english language only (with approx. 100 pages) - and to lower the time consuming translation work of Steve somewhat, the polish speaking Atarians (e.g. KAZ) and the german speaking Atarians (e.g. Markus and me) deliver their articles in english, so no translation is required (just some proof-reading regarding grammar and typos). Issue 14 will be out in a few days (some Atarians, e.g. Philsan, already got it!) and the magazine again features more than 100 pages to read...

But there is a big difference between Abbuc magazine and Proc magazine, the latter is only a fanzine !

andymanone hat geschrieben:I´m not sure, but whats about a parallel distributed (and searchable) PDF version of the ABBUC Mag for all members?

This idea has been discussed many times during the last two decades. There is one issue: Why should someone pay a membership, if ATR & PDF can be retrieved for free? You can see already ATR circulate shortly after publishing the disks.

Beside, how to chase away flies using a PDF?

CharlieChaplin hat geschrieben:

Bunsen hat geschrieben:The effort to have all articles translated by humans has already failed with the Pro (c) magazine. We should learn from the experience and not make the same mistake.

I would not say it has failed due to translation work (there were other reasons) ...
....
But there is a big difference between Abbuc magazine and Proc magazine, the latter is only a fanzine !

That's it! I'm neither interested in a fanzine nor a gaming magazine. And I guess many ABBUC members like the mixture you find in our ABBUC publications. Yes, I'm really old-fashioned.

Besides, translating ABBUC articles or even the whole booklet for the quarterly disk wasn't the real problem. If I recall correctly, it was the double effort and cost for disk and booklet. And, of course, an organizational problem as the material has to be processed much earlier than usual within ABBUC.

Often there was a call from Wolfgang for material for the next magazine a few days before launch time ...

At least in my view the diskmagazine and the accompanying booklet are the unique selling point of ABBUC.

May be I am wrong, but I think, you will not get away with replacing disk & booklet by ATR & PDF, but ABBUC as we know it may pass away because of that.

GoodByteXL hat geschrieben:

andymanone hat geschrieben:I´m not sure, but whats about a parallel distributed (and searchable) PDF version of the ABBUC Mag for all members?

This idea has been discussed many times during the last two decades.

Yes, I know .

GoodByteXL hat geschrieben:There is one issue: Why should someone pay a membership, if ATR & PDF can be retrieved for free? You can see already ATR circulate shortly after publishing the disks.

Sure, but I didn´t mean, it should be freely available for everyone, but only for Abbuc members.
And I don´t think anyone is canceling their ABBUC membership to get the PDF for free from another member...

GoodByteXL hat geschrieben:Beside, how to chase away flies using a PDF?

Yes, ya´re right !
But I was talking about an additional PDF version...

Gtx.,
andY

andymanone hat geschrieben:But I was talking about an additional PDF version...

It's fine with me. As long as every member keeps it closed as they all do with ATR ...
I wonder how the ATR files slip through the system of ABBUC shortly after providing it for download ...

Besides, I see the demand for an English version and offered to help in the past.

On the other hand it seems that ABBUC is the last A8 fortress in the world, because so far it is unique in many ways. Why change a successful, running system.

What is needed is a good idea how to support English speaking members in a better way.

Maybe a compromise could be, to write the listing of the content (Inhaltsaufgabe) in English as well.
If someone is really intrested in an article, they can ask for a translation.

BR/
Guus

I think it's a myth that people join ABBUC (only) because they want to get access to the magazine and disk.

I experience is that people interested in retro computer spend money to support community efforts to create new software and hardware, and provide information about their hobby.

I see that people donate over 3.000 US$ for updating the GCC compiler to still create good code for Atari ST and Amiga: https://www.bountysource.com/issues/807 ... e-releases

Having the ABBUC mag in digital form as PDF or as text on the website, as well has the Disk image, would be good marketing for ABBUC and would sooner or later result in more (not less) members signing up.

Just my thought.

Carsten

Hallo cas

cas hat geschrieben:Das ABBUC-Magazin in digitaler Form als PDF oder als Text auf der Website zu haben, sowie das Disk-Image, wäre ein gutes Marketing für ABBUC

Das mag ich nicht beurteilen. Aber das Abbuc-Magazin ohne Textbeilage wäre schon eine Zäsur.

Gruß

I don't know why other people joined the club, but for me neither the text mag nor the disk mag is the reason for being a member. Being a part of a strong community and helping to fund projects (hardware/software/books/...) is it for me. And I'm sure that counts for many, many people, too (why else would we have so many non-german-speaking members?)
I agree with cas and see more opportunities than risks to provide a bilingual PDF.

dl7ukk hat geschrieben:Hallo cas

cas hat geschrieben:Das ABBUC-Magazin in digitaler Form als PDF oder als Text auf der Website zu haben, sowie das Disk-Image, wäre ein gutes Marketing für ABBUC

Das mag ich nicht beurteilen. Aber das Abbuc-Magazin ohne Textbeilage wäre schon eine Zäsur.

Gruß

Ich denke, niemand denkt darüber nach, das physikalische Disk-Magazin oder die Papierbeilage komplett abzuschaffen. Aber wir denken darüber nach, es zusätzlich AUCH in digitaler Form anzubieten. Und in digitaler Form eben ebenfalls zusätzlich AUCH in englischer Sprache.

Die Tatsache, dass jetzt bereits die ATR-Kopien des Magazins kurz nach Versand der Disketten im allgemeinen Umlauf sind, hat den Mitgliederzahlen bisher nicht geschadet. Ich denke, es hat die Mitgliederanzahl eher erhöht, weil mehr Interessierte auf uns aufmerksan wurden...